Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Spider Surgery.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Spider Surgery.

    I wanted to share something I found this week with BTS members, that hopefully may save spider lives and limbs in the future. To some of you this may not be a revelation however to others members it could be valuable information.

    Last Sunday I took my male Nandu Chromatus (Brazil Striped) to mate with a fellow keepers female. He had built a sperm web just a few days earlier and was ready to go. I expected he would be eaten after mating but Shaun managed to separate them almost immediately following a quick mating. I was pleased as I particularly like my Nandu Chromatus!

    When I got him home, I noticed he was loosing fluid which upon closer inspection proved to be Hemolymph (Spider blood that shows as think clear liquid with a blue tint) from a single puncture wound between his Coxa and Trochanter, just before his Femur on his 4th (back) leg. It was bleeding quite bad and I new he would be dead in the morning if I did nothing. I considered amputating the leg however do the close proximity of the wound to his Sternum. Amputation would more than likely end with him bleeding to death anyway. Another thing I had to consider was venomation, however this was a secondary consideration.

    Hemolymph lacks the Haemoglobin of mammal blood. It’s the Haemoglobin that gives it our blood the red colour and allows it to clot quickly sealing small wounds. Hemolymph contains a substance called Hemocyanin that gives it a blue tint hence the Cyan reference, but that provides a very limited clotting agent. Hence the reason many spiders die when injured, they simply bleed to death.

    So I had to consider his and my options…………………. I had to stop the bleeding without amputating his leg or killing him. My solution was Vaseline.

    Vaseline is quite a viscous liquid at room temperature, it is used during boxing matches to stop blood flow from cuts acquired during a fight. I love boxing as well as my spiders! My solution was to get his wound dressed with Vaseline.

    How I did this was simple. I put him in a small plastic case and put him in the fridge. I checked him every 3 of 4 minutes to check his level of dormancy, once I could turn the tub over and rest him on his back without him trying to turn over or overreact to being prodded by his injury I knew he was “under”. From there I took a cotton bud and put plenty of Vaseline on it. I held that over the wound and then used a lighter to melt the Vaseline. As the Vaseline melted I touched the cotton bud over the wound and the now runny Vaseline dripped like candle wax right over the wound. It instantly cooled again and provided an air and indeed Hemolymph tight seal, thus preventing the death of my spider. I left him on his back to warm back up and kept an eye on him for a couple of days. I placed him on a piece of kitchen role during his operation and recuperation period. This also allowed me to look for other signs of bleeding as these would be visible by the soaking capillary action of the cloth. On Wednesday he took a cricket and began webbing up in the plastic tub, and so I knew he was on the mend. Luckily he showed no sign of venomation. Yesterday the Vaseline seal dropped off and to my relief the wound did not bleed. He has now being moved from his “hospital” tub back to his Vivarium, where he will more than likely live out his remaining days under my care, unless of course he gets the chance to mate again.

    I haven’t come across any similar techniques in any books, most advise sticking your poor spider in the freezer and euthanising them in these circumstances. I am interested to hear any other techniques people have applied. I have aptly named my technique the “Clegg Technique” and I hope that by sharing this idea some other BTS members can also protect their spiders. My advice is to keep a clear clean tub, some Vaseline, cotton buds and a lighter in your spider kits, just in case!

    Regards

    J M Clegg (Spider Surgeon)
    Everyones an Expert! "Ex" is a has been - "spurt" is a strong gush of water! You decide............................

  • #2
    I hope I'll never have to use the Clegg Technique... but I'll always have a jar of Vaseline in the house!
    Lasiodora parahybana

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting, just read a similar thing in The Bible.
      Also the bit about Hemolyph I found particuylarly interesting. You mention a blue tint, well while our blood is based on iron, which gives hemoglobin its red colkour, Hemolyph is 'copper based' so to speak, and we know that copper oxide is blue green!
      My Collection: - Spiders are everywhere, so live with it
      Ray Gabriel






      Comment


      • #4
        I read about plugging wounds with vaseline in a book I have by Samuel D. Marshall the name of the book is Tarantulas and other arachnids, it has a little section on it.

        It doesnt say about cooling the spider down though so thats useful to know, to be honest id be scared to try but if it was the matter between saving the spider or not id do it.

        Is it common to loose the male after mating, I know the female eats the male but is it hard to stop this happening, I dont know if id want to get in between an angry female T.Blondi for example and her meal lol.
        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

        Comment


        • #5
          Larry - the bible??

          Oh I admit - I am good, but please don't compare me God!!!!

          Your hemoglobin is made up from a Hemotite (Iron) compound, which as you correctly point gives it the red colour. Your blood is pre-dominantly plasma, essentially a saline solution, which contains the Hemoglobin based blood cells that give it it's red colour as well as your white cells. But I guess now we are being picky!!

          I am sure that if you find a spider bleeding you will note that it's blood in has a blue tint, as you correctly point out the oxidised colour of copper is Green / blue. I am not sure whether the oxidation of the copper element of the Hemolymph that actually gives the blue tint, maybe it is??

          I did not mean to start a debate on Bio-Chemisty, I simply wanted to spread the word on the "Clegg Technique" in a bid to prevent spider deaths!
          Everyones an Expert! "Ex" is a has been - "spurt" is a strong gush of water! You decide............................

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by J M Clegg View Post
            Larry - the bible??

            Oh I admit - I am good, but please don't compare me God!!!!

            Your hemoglobin is made up from a Hemotite (Iron) compound, which as you correctly point gives it the red colour. Your blood is pre-dominantly plasma, essentially a saline solution, which contains the Hemoglobin based blood cells that give it it's red colour as well as your white cells. But I guess now we are being picky!!

            I am sure that if you find a spider bleeding you will note that it's blood in has a blue tint, as you correctly point out the oxidised colour of copper is Green / blue. I am not sure whether the oxidation of the copper element of the Hemolymph that actually gives the blue tint, maybe it is??

            I did not mean to start a debate on Bio-Chemisty, I simply wanted to spread the word on the "Clegg Technique" in a bid to prevent spider deaths!
            bio chemistry is all a bit over my head lol
            The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by J M Clegg View Post
              Larry - the bible??
              Yea,Schulz's 'Tarantula Keeper's Guide', excellent book

              I did not mean to start a debate on Bio-Chemisty, I simply wanted to spread the word on the "Clegg Technique" in a bid to prevent spider deaths!
              I didnt mean to offend I just find this stuff interesting.
              My Collection: - Spiders are everywhere, so live with it
              Ray Gabriel






              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Larry View Post
                Yea,Schulz's 'Tarantula Keeper's Guide', excellent book



                I didnt mean to offend I just find this stuff interesting.
                Larry - no offence I took it in jest and my reply was meant the same!
                Everyones an Expert! "Ex" is a has been - "spurt" is a strong gush of water! You decide............................

                Comment


                • #9
                  JMG
                  Using vaseline is a pretty old technic its been around as long as I can remmember. However I have never heard of this being applied the way you have discribed so - well done and if you don't mind I will cut and paste it in to a web page and post it on the articles pages.

                  This way it can as you wished go on saving damaged tarantulas.

                  Mind you depending on how much fluid the spider has lost I would try this without cooling the tarantula down if at all posible. Cooling down the spider with low blood pressure could prove fatal.


                  Many thanks for sharing! and excellent read

                  Regards
                  Mark
                  Last edited by Mark Pennell; 24-11-06, 03:52 PM.

                  ------------------------------------------------------
                  Serious Ink tattoo studio -
                  Discounts on tattoo's for BTS members
                  My Collection: - Support captive breeding

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Mark,

                    Thanks for that - if it helps other keepers then I am pleased you find it useful enough to place it in other sections of the excellent BTS web site.

                    I agree with what your saying about the loss of fluid and cooling them down. I was going to add, that with the "Clegg Technique" You have just one shot at getting it right, and that repeatedly cooling and then reheating a spider would be potentially lethal to your "patient".

                    Perhaps you could also add this to the section when you cut and paste the text back.

                    Best regards

                    Jay.
                    Everyones an Expert! "Ex" is a has been - "spurt" is a strong gush of water! You decide............................

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just as an update: He is just in the middle of finishing another sperm web. This is just 6 days on from him mating and sustaining the injury. I think that the "Clegg Tecnique" has obviosuly helped him heal quickly and he has suffered no ill effects from his ordeal.

                      I would be interested to hear any other BTS members suggestions on how they have dealt with things. I am going to write a full and detailed article for Mark to place on the BTS Articles section. I hope that my findings help many people save their spiders in the future.

                      Jay.
                      Everyones an Expert! "Ex" is a has been - "spurt" is a strong gush of water! You decide............................

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Jay,just reading in my book about this. There is no mention of vaseline or similar so looks like you've pioneered with this! They do mention the use of toilet tissue tho and the chinese use rice paper. Both act like tissue when a person cuts him\herself shaving
                        My Collection: - Spiders are everywhere, so live with it
                        Ray Gabriel






                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Larry View Post
                          Hi Jay,just reading in my book about this. There is no mention of vaseline or similar so looks like you've pioneered with this! They do mention the use of toilet tissue tho and the chinese use rice paper. Both act like tissue when a person cuts him\herself shaving
                          Larry, you need to read some other literature! The Schultz' book is very detailed and is most definitely verbose, but it's certainly not the be all and end all where tarantula keeping is concerned.

                          Melting the vaseline with a lighter is certainly something I've never come across, and frankly not something I'd consider myself and I'm not sure refridgerating the spider is such a good idea either.

                          Perhaps warming the vaseline by placing it in a pot surrounded by hot water would be safer too, and then dipping the cotton bud into the vaseline. Applying a lighter to petroleum jelly doesn't sound like an entirely good idea

                          My Collection:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Phil, It may not seem like a good idea but hey it works! I think the problem with melting a pot of vaseline is that it you have to apply a lot of heat to get a full tub to melt, once you have acheived this then the vaseline may be too hot and have the adverse effect of burning your spider. By gently applying just a small amount of heat from a lighter it is easy to control the amount of liquification occuring and control the amount of vaseline, remember we are looking for a very small drip here and not a melting pot. The small drip coveres the small wound and then quickly solidifies. It's almost like when you drip a candle onto a cold surface, as soon as the wax touches it cools and hardens. I can see your point about applying a lighter to petrolium jelly, however you would have to apply a significant amount of heat to the jelly solution to get the petrolium compounds to flash burn. In fairness it is petrolium vapour that ignites anyway as it mixes with air and not liquid petrolium. Under laborotory conditions I have witnessed lit matches being extinguished in liquid petrolium providing the match is quickly placed into the petrolium. It is the evaporating petrolium gas that ignites over a receptical of petrol when petrol sets fire and not the liquid petrolium directly. In this circumstance I think the method is safe and presents less danger than a tub of hot and sticky melted vaseline potentially could.

                            There are a number of books that contain references for cooling a spider that is hard to handle. The same principle works in this case as again we are looking to subdue a spider long enough to quickly apply a seal. Cooling it works, keeps it still and allows the vaseline to quickly cool and harden. Especially if the wound is on the underside of a spider. I am not advocating Cryogenics, just a gentle cooling!

                            I hope you don't ever need the "Clegg Technique" to save a spider, however there are alot of keepers out there for whom this information will help. The idea works and I think could save spider lives. Let's face it this is probably intended as a last case solution before terminating your spider anyway. You may not consider it yourself, but I am sure others will.

                            At the end of the day I am having a laugh with the "Clegg Technique" name, but I am serious about the practice. It does work and I am sure that in the future other people will adopt it rather than loose a spider. As with everything though it will come down to choice, whether an individual advocates it or not is irrelevent, I think knowledge shared is always the best type of knowledge. That is all I am trying to acheive here. If it helps someone save their spider great, and if nobody ever even considers it, then that's fine too.
                            Everyones an Expert! "Ex" is a has been - "spurt" is a strong gush of water! You decide............................

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Phil Rea View Post
                              Larry, you need to read some other literature! The Schultz' book is very detailed and is most definitely verbose, but it's certainly not the be all and end all where tarantula keeping is concerned.
                              Yea good poiunt but im fairly new to the hobby, and my library only has one book on Ts(Marhsall)
                              What other books are out there?
                              But then i thought the Schulz book was 'The Bible', the definitive guide, written by experts!
                              And if you read lots of books dont you end up with lots of conflicting info? Its a toughie.
                              My Collection: - Spiders are everywhere, so live with it
                              Ray Gabriel






                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X